The Player's voice

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The Player's voice

Post  Santander on Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:08 am

I think this is an excelente idea.
The player's voice, the vox populi, must be heard.
Why?
Because in my opinion, WotC is making bad assumptions in what is the best for the players.
(They 've made some good assumptions before, like the airfare prize in PTQ's)
You cant's design good incentives (is all about how you do that) if you don't what motivates the players, what they think, what they prefer.
That's why i think that the player should organize more, and this is a first step.

Saludos a todos desde Chile

Maximiliano Santander
(a comptetitive player, not pro yet)

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  savaj_cheetr on Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:41 am

I am a PTQ player who has had a taste of the Pro Tour. Getting onto the train has been a dream of mine for years.

With the recent announcements, however, I can now say for the first time that I would not pursue the train even if it seemed like my longtime goal might finally be attainable. Attending distant PTs without a plane ticket just doesn't make any sense to me any more, and I'm not merely talking financially -- WOTC has set a dangerous precedent for implementing extreme changes on very short notice. Trying to level up costs money, and a commitment to the pro lifestyle. Making any sort of commitment based on information provided by WOTC is simply unacceptable if the status of the tour for the following year is unreliable.

Furthermore, having one fewer PT means one fewer PTQ season. There have already been significant downtimes for me from this game I love during the past year, and having one fewer PTQ season will make me feel even less immersed in our culture than I once was. I can only hope that these changes are not longterm, as I personally feel a lot less motivated to reach the PT now and I can only assume there are other players who feel the same way.

I support you guys 100%, and I'm glad that efforts are being made to communicate.

-Zack Smith

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  Caerthose529 on Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:54 pm

I support this move 100% as well. I'd like to say thanks to Raphael Levy for starting it and all those pros or otherwise who contribute to it. I'm also a ptq level player. I've played the game off and on for years but I never really considered trying for the pro tour until last year. My goal this year actually is to qualify for a PT (yeah, i know, lots of people have this goal), in the past year I've strengthened my play considerably going from a 1650ish player to surpassing 1900 (in constructed), I placed 5th at regionals this past year, narrowly missing actually winning it (since i won swiss, damn you Bret Piazza!) then 16th at states narrowly missing top 8 (again, damn you Bret Piazza! yeah, he beat me at both events) and basically had what's been the best year i've ever had playing magic. I do serious testing now with various partners and look forward to attending everything i can. If I can make the various gp's in the US i'm going to, money will tell though. This game while not being the most important thing in my life has a definite influence on it and I've never regretted my investment into it (not even when I've had virtually my entire collection stolen at a ptq). You just rebuild and continue with the help of the friends you've made playing this wonderful game. I've enjoyed reading about the exploits of those at the pinnacle of the game and their experiences combined with the realization that achieving that level of success is possible for those of us willing to put the time into improving our game. I look forward to following what happens with the efforts put forward and contributing in any way i can. Once again, thank you to those who took the initiative to start this. (sorry for bad editing, it's 5 am and i haven't slept yet).

Patrick Smith

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  GlyCeriNE on Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:25 pm

Yeah ! Smile

This is a really good idea, I can't wait to see how it will turn up... If we can have such a group of players advising the ones who decide for us, it would even be a victory for the casual and "fun" players, who are often very far from the decisions of WotC... I'll repeat myself : can't wait! bounce

So I'll support your initiative 'til the end guys, even if I've never been part of any sanctioned tournament ^_^ Power to the people! (urhm, sorry, got lost in my motivation jocolor )

THANK YOU !

Marie.

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Good Job!

Post  Decuay on Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:36 pm

I think it has been a great move to create this "Union".
I'm not a very successful player, but I also noticed about these conflicts in the last weeks.
I think the most important thing is that really famous players like Frank Karsten do something for their game.
Names like these are often associated with the game and its good to know that these players do something for it and care about Wizard's Decisions! 100% support from me and my friends.

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  eunck on Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:02 pm

support = making an account here

So all you ptq and gp players out there, don't just read this forum, open an account and tell all your friends to do the same. The more people are registered here, the more credibility we will have and the stronger our voice will be.

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  MagicRage on Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:22 am

I'm very happy to see the competitive community organizing in this fashion. I have never made it to a Pro Tour, but hearing there would be 1 less this year made me very uneasy about the future. I'm glad some major names like Raphael are spearheading this and this group has my full support.
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my support

Post  k2 on Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:12 pm

i'm 15 years old, i'm a gp/ptq player too and i'm glad to see this union made. In Italy since last year a site like this one (but only for italian player of course) has been made and it's doing very well: since it was opened we obtained best conditions for ptq location: largest local with public service, good igenic conditions and other services like bar in the location. So I think that with the dialogue beetween Wotc and players we will reach our goals.

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  nihal on Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:35 pm

Oh yeah, very good idea. I've known this site from k2 (yes, i'm italian too, but not as pro as him XD), i hope it will grow up and become full of people What a Face


See you ^^
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Re: The Player's voice

Post  Nedo92 on Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:26 am

I'm With Nihal ^^
yes, i really apogize this idea, good. more dialog between players and WotC will be good for both parts ^^

bye Cool

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  Cutthroat Smile on Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:02 am

I support this move 100% and think that a Players Union would be a good idea even without the differing view of current decisions. I'm a PTQ player that hasn't made it big yet, but I'm hoping it'll happen sometime. Seeing the current direction that WotC has taken has been sort of a blow to my dream and I hope that this goes in some direction to sort out some sort of positive conclusion to this.

Wish I could lend my voice in person, but I am currently mired in a deployment in Iraq. ah well.....

-Andrew

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  MegaŠ on Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:37 am

I'm 17 years old, and i am not a big time player at all, but i still want to support this cause.
Its important that mtg players will stand up for them selfs Exclamation

-MegaŠ

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The Player's Voice

Post  MelissaD on Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:15 pm

I was a ptq player for years and played in a 1-2 pro tours a season. It has been my goal to make level 3 (now level 5) since I started playing in ptq's. I am qualified for Kuala Lumpur and Hollywood so this is the first year that it has been a realistic goal. But now that wizards cut a PT, it looks like this won't happen. I hope this union will get wotc to bring back the team PT. It is by far the most fun PT to play in. I think this is a bad move for wotc and hopefully they will reconsider if not this year then next year.

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  MStone on Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:14 pm

I agree with the need for some player representation. While I have recently not been as active as I used to, I used to be a PTQ regular, attending all Massachusetts area PTQs, and have qualified for and played in 1 Pro Tour. I think part of the problem that a lot of people aren't talking about is the trickle down effect. 1 less PT also means 1 less PTQ season. I personally have seen in the past that when many people drop from the game it is during the lull in PTQ seasons, as PTQ formats tend to bring direction to what many players are playing. I have recently considered getting back into the game at a competitive level, but with the downsizing of the PT, I have one more reason to limit my play.

Lastly, I just want to reiterate my support for this union of players. I hope that WotC will take us seriously when we bring our wants and desires to their attention.

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You have my support

Post  benchapman on Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:15 pm

This initiative is exciting and I hope it can bring results - like better/more reliable communication from WotC and a hopeful reinstatement of certain benefits. On a philosophical level not allowing the game's top players be able to make a living off the game really defeats the purpose of a "Pro Tour". Being a professional at something means that you do that thing as your livelihood. Maybe renaming it the Competitive Magic Circuit would be more appropriate. There is just little to no motivation to "chase the dream" if once you get there it takes all your time and energy to scrape by. It just makes poker look more and more the correct choice for many competitive gamers out there.

Good luck to the Union, the initial results are looking promising. I feel with the powerful support of current and future hall of famers, real results are definitely achievable.

- Ben Chapman, above average PTQ player.

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Wizards-Are you kidding me?

Post  gwdearing on Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:30 pm

I understand what Frank Karsten wrote as Wizard's position and agree that they are making a huge mistake with this move. They really need to know what the player's think about it. I am happy to see that Raph and Ant have made this forum for people to comment. I have met BDM and he seems like a nice guy, but he did a horrible job trying to spin this in a positive light. Whether you candy coat crap or not, it is still crap!

I hope that I can do whatever is in my power to make a change. I have been an avid player for over 10 years and have attended hundred of ptq's in one form or another. As an average player I am already considering selling off my collection and working more on other endeavors. WOTC had better step up fast if they expect to keep Magic going for the long term!

My 2 cents,

gwdearing

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A big step backward

Post  MichaelJ on Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:17 am

Hello all. I am a semi competitive player from the true Northern California region. (I am 20 miles south of Oregon and have to drive 5 hours to San Jose or 6 hours to Portland for PTQ's) I have been dreaming of playing on the PT since I played my first FNM 6 years ago. For the past couple years I have gotten more and more excited by all of new frills of the PT lifestyle. It seemed like every year there was some new better part of the tour and it was always exclamated by the promise that there was even more new stuff coming in the future. I believe that cutting a PT is a big step backward from everything that WotC is trying to build. I offer my full support on this as miniscule as it may be.

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LONG LIVE MAGIC!

Post  Arthas on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:47 am

I think this forum was a great idea. As MichaelJ, im a semipro player too, and i think WoTC staff doesnt count with player (the most important) opinion to plan the PT year calendar.

Congratulations to the creator of this initiative and LONG LIVE MAGIC!

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  giffenaw on Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:12 am

I'm just here to put in my bit of support. I played in my first PTQs last year, but I've been playing the game since 4th Edition, and I follow the pro circuit avidly. My goal coming into this year was going to be to qualify for a PT, but finding out I wouldn't be able to make KL or (probably) Hollywood, and knowing that there is only one more PT before Worlds hits, I must admit that my enthusiasm for the game has been dampened recently. I remember reading BDM's article in which he slid the announcments about WotC's program changes, and I just felt very uneasy about the whole thing. The approach seemed to have a "Well, let's mention this in passing, try to put some positive spin on it, then just leave it as it is" air about it, which to me indicated that they expected negative reactions but wanted to mitigate the issue in the public view.

At any rate, I'm really glad to see that players across the world now have an "official" place to get together to discuss recent changes, our relationship with Wizards, and anything else that may arise in the near or distant future. I also like that it gives players of all levels (from those who have never played in a PTQ to old lvl6 mages) a chance to interact and discuss important issues surrounding the game.


-Alex Giffen

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Just a watcher.

Post  GrayOne on Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:27 am

Great Idea. I love to watch the tour and see the "superstars" and how they play, I would like to say that this was a huge bombshell to drop without discussing this with the players. This forum was made to support that cause so I support it.

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My Magic story

Post  sethelnuts on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:15 pm

I am really glad that the magic community is coming together in a sort of call to arms, every player has moments in their playing days that will stick around as memories forever. I like so many of you enjoy the competitive magic scene and spend hours every week testing all kinds of decks from the ones that won recent ptqs or crazy concoctions I dreamt up while at work. I was at one time lucky enough to make some amatuer prize money at GP chicago 3man sealed with rochester day 2. It was really a thrilling sensation, and now i am sad that so many amatuers will not get to feel that rush. We squeaked in to Day 2 no byes 6-2 it was so much fun. Magic has since axed team limited, which I quite enjoyed instead of playing against my friends I got to play with them, and now they have cut the amatuer prizes. I don't think there is anyway I can justify making the 15 hr drive to GP: Philly. I mean I know I would have a great time, but I also know that the chance to take home a prize if I do well is the reason I compete. I don't expect to win a bunch of cash, but just maybe by the skin of my teeth I could feel that thrill again.

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  Drefizzle on Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:51 pm

I'm here to support the players voice in WOTC affairs. I feel that if this game is going to stick around, its going to take more than a few people to make large scale decisions that affect the magic community as a whole.

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Magic Forever

Post  Ragette on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:06 pm

Im 17 and im an average player, i got into magic about 3 years ago when i was playing a game of Yu-Gi-Oh (yes im still ashamed of it =P) and saw someone play a game of magic and thought it was a very interesting game.
I found it such a great concept that it wasn't always the best cards win (like with Yu-Gi-Oh) and the fact that alot of skill is needed to be good, not just luck.
my appetite for magic was made even more great when I played my first FNM and managed 4th place with a B/W deck and it felt good to get prizes for doing well(ish).
I am in full support of this site and everything it is trying to do and 100% hope that wizards will acknowledge what we, the players, both pro and casual alike want from the game.

Dane Christoffersen
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Re: Players Voice

Post  scragnoth on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:42 pm

I played in my first pro tour last season (Valencia) won a decent amount of money and qualified for Kuala Lumpur (from Valencia top 50) and Hollywood (Ranking).

There is a GP in my country this season and I was planning to visit all the European Grand Prix circuit.

I was hopeful of perhaps making level 3 this year and believed I hada real shot at it. However, with the appearance fee cut and 1 less pro-tour i need to make this new level 5 for it to be worth it and with 1 less pro tour it just does not seem worth it.

I am no longer going to Kuala Lumpur and Hollywood is 50:50.

I really believed I had a shot at turning pro, but thanks to these changes I won't risk the prize money. I will still play in PTQs at the moment but it is getting harded to justify the cost of getting 4 of all the key cards. Especially when they will be releasing 4 sets this year.

I know Wizards is money grabbing, but the pro tour was where they gave something back. The future of the whole tour seems in doubt to me unless Hasbro shares rise.

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Re: The Player's voice

Post  einlanzer on Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:59 pm

Not only is the idea a great one, but the way that it is being gone about is awesome as well!

I love the fact that this is a non-threatening, "play nice" kind of thing. We all love the game, and when I heard about a players union i almost did a double-take. When you hear the word union, especially in America, you think blacklisting, strikes, etc. and I was very happy to note that this was not the case.

excellent job everyone!

I hope this works!!

Matt McCormick
level 1/2 Mage (PTQ player)

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Re: The Player's voice

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